From: robin.hill@baesystems.com  Wed Aug 28 10:53:58 2002
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From: Robin Hill <robin.hill@baesystems.com>
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:17:20 +0000
Subject: [zzzzteana] re: Steam
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:15:36 -0500 (EST)
Jay Lake <jlake@jlake.com> wrote:


<snip>

>Second, one could make the assumption that ancient or future civilizations
>would not be hydrocarbon based. There are alternative fuel sources,
>including seabed methane, biomass and all the usual suspects -- solar,
>hydro etc. Some of these could be exploited on a decidedly low-tech (ie,
>emergent civilization) basis. However, it is difficult to conceive of an
>industrial civilization that doesn't employ wheels, axles and bearings,
>all of which require lubrication. I'm not an engineer (Robin, anyone?) but
>it's my understanding that vegetable lubrication breaks down under stress,
>and that oil or graphite lubricants are the only reasonable choices for
>high temperature/high rotation applications, at least prior to extremely
>advanced modes of chemical synthesis.

This is a good point. There are a lot of alternatives to hydrocarbon
products derived from petroleum, but these have often been developed as
a replacement for petroleum after the technology has been established -
there is a growing industry in plant-derived plastics and lubricants,
but this is to replicate materials that have been previously created 
much more easily within the petrochemical industry.

Vegetable-derived lubricants have been used. The Russians used sunflower
oil in the lubrication systems of tanks and trucks during the second world 
war, and work is being done in the UK to produce diesel fuel derived from
waste cooking oil from fast-food restaurants. 

Jay's correct in his opinion that vegetable oil is not as durable as 
petroleum oil, but this is only because of the lack of sophistication 
of the chemistry involved. Synthetic fuels and lubricants are continuously
being developed, and I don't see any problems with synthetics ultimately 
matching the performance of the more conventional products. As the rock
oil runs out, plant oil derivatives *will* be developed to fill the
gap. In parallel, changes will occur in the designs of the machines to 
cope with any changes in performance of the lubricants.

My big concern is if the technology were ever to be lost for some reason.
Re-creating a petrochemical industry from scratch without petrochemicals
(that is, going immediately to plant-based synthetics) would be extremely 
difficult, especially if it were necessary to recreate *all* of the
petrochemical-derived products (not just lubricants and fuels). I suspect
that, bearing in mind the ingenuity of the human race, it would happen,
just at a different pace. Imagine an industrial revollution based on,
for example, methane from pig manure, or diesel oil from sunflowers.

All we would then have to do is get used to all the machines smelling
like pig farms and fish and chip shops...

Robin Hill, STEAMY BESS, Brough, East Yorkshire



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